Religion:
Re Astronut re "YHWH the Bully"
 

Adam and Eve had immortality prior to touching the fruit, but gave it up when they were disobedient. So not only did they lose their immortal being, they were disobedient to Yahweh. And to disagree with the [your response] about original sin I say 'no deed done is done without thought' so the sin occurred when the thought of disobedience was given by the serpent to Eve, that is why the serpent was cursed along with them.

YHWH Himself says that the reason He drove Adam and Eve away from the Tree of Life is not to punish them for disobedience but to prevent humans, now wise, from becoming also immortal. Deciding to eat the fruit did not make Adam and Eve wise. Actually eating the fruit is what did that. Therefore, YHWH denied them the Tree of Life because they ate the fruit, not because they decided to eat the fruit. That's what YHWH says, anyway.

I don't know which version of scriptures you quote, but either they are translated incorrectly or you misquoted the passage. It reads as follows: "Gen 2:17 But of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you may not take; for on the day when you take of it, death will certainly come to you.."

"Death will certainly come to you" is not so much a translation as a paraphrase or rewrite. The verse should be translated as "you will die," or something very similar. If you don't believe me, do a Google search on "Genesis 2:17" and see for yourself.

YHWH says "eat the fruit and on that day you'll die." Adam and Eve eat the fruit and don't die on that day. YHWH had been bluffing. The original account is so contrary to contemporary sensibilities that some Bible translators think it needs a rewrite.

JoT, man dies doesn't he? Death has come to you and I from Adam's disobedience... we make the same choices from birth to be disobedient. So we are the liars not God. He showed love and compassion to Adam and Eve by not destroying them, and he shows it to us through salvation through Jesus Christ.

Death has not come to you and me in the sense of Genesis 2:17 because that verse is about actually dying.

In addition, it's silly to say "man dies." You might as well say "Americans die" or "people born on Tuesday die." Animals die, and some animals are humans. There's nothing surprising or significant about humans being just as mortal as every other animal that's evolved on planet Earth.

—JoT
March 2003

Heirodule
JoT

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